Question – “Where are we before being born to this world?”


Chinaman –  Good evening my friends.


It is such a long time since I spoke to you, however it was elected that I speak this evening concerning this question of where you are before you come to this earth plane and incarnate.  But perhaps the question ought to be not just what happens before you become incarnate what also what is ‘Judgement’ and why is heaven not full up?  For those three questions are very much related to each other. I will begin at the point of leaving the incarnational plane.


When a person dies to this earthly life they go to the place appointed for them.  What a funny phrase this is.  I think in your language it is a euphemism.  This is one way of saying there is a form of judgement.  However this is not ‘The Judgement’ which is spoken of in your scriptures –  not really.


There is much in your scriptures concerning what happens to people after their lifetime and why they go where they go. There are such verses as “the wages of sin is death”.  Well of course you die but that is not what it means literally.  We all die to the physical.  But as has been spoken before on more that one occasion, there are various heavens and if a person leads a dissolute life or a life of real selfishness and maliciousness then the wages of that kind of living is in deed a spiritual kind of dying or death.  They automatically travel to the place where their spirit is drawn and those levels are dark, dim, and devoid of life, so indeed they enter into a kind of death realm.


While those who have lived lives according to righteousness and spirituality gravitate to places where there is an abundance of life – a bounty, a joy and light – that which is thought of as the heavens.


And it does not matter which religion you are taught from.  They all have these kinds of teachings and some of these stories and lessons are very close to what will actually happen.  Others are more in terms of poetry, a poetic licence seeing things in symbolic terms or metaphoric terms.  Others are quite erroneous, but still there is a gist of something positive and something negative.


So the person resides in those heavens for any number of years.  Then there is what is often thought of as a further judgement, but it is not a single incident as standing before some superior being and being weighed in the balance but rather over a series of talks, of meetings discussing the challenges, whether they were met or missed in the incarnational time.


Usually that person, as they think of their life past, is harsher in their judgement than anybody else, for the time they have already spent in the after life has given them perspective and understanding and they can see their failings more easily and are quite ready to own up to them.  At that point the discussion begins to take the form as to how to redress balances, karmic debt, and to face the missed challenges.  And just as the individual is usually the most harsh judge of their past time they are usually quite sure that in the next life they will be able to do much, much better!


In that case the promises that they make have to be tempered for a more realistic outlook and stance to be taken.  But there is a twist to all of this, because as the person stands there or sits there and talks it is not them – or that persona – who will be reincarnated, so they can be quite enthusiastic about facing challenges.  They themselves will not be the ones facing things.  It is, of course, that Essential I, the Perfect, the Over Soul, – whichever word you wish to use to describe that essence of the person which will impart something of itself once more to the earthly plane of existence, for a new persona is to be born.


That new persona faces the challenges while the older persona stays and faces their own usually very slow progress through the heavens.


So a cycle is completed.  A ‘new person’ on the earth plane continues their life and challenges will be met or not met according to what was discussed before hand.  But yes it is still that Essence which has agreed to come, in that form, in that time, in those circumstances, to face challenges or karmic debt – there is no getting away from that.


So why isn’t heaven full if a new persona is born and will eventually come into the heavens?  It is because people continue on their spiritual journey.  Life continues and personas merge and become one with others in that most mystical journey to the light, to God.  As new personas are born to the earth plane others combine and move on, so a kind of balance is kept.


I think that answers that question as to what happens before you are born to the earth plane; it also answers something about judgement and why heaven is not full.  And something of these truths are presented through the various religions, scriptures, and holy books.  For the Christian there are in fact three judgements.  One is that people initially go to the place appointed them, which is no judgement at all except that universal law of going to the most comfortable place; then there is the judgement of looking back over their past life, which is far more protracted than a single event, and there will be a third judgement, a most cosmic Judgement of all of earth and its realms, at some time in the future.  But that is something very different to what we have been talking about.


Does that answer your question S…..?


S……  So when it was said that this had been discussed with me before I was born, it wasn’t with me personally as I am now as S….. but with a past persona or past life, with something of that ‘Essential I’ that comes into being?


Chinaman….  It doesn’t come into being.  It is, it always has and always will be.  But some aspect of that Essential I is in each persona and it is that which continues and is born anew.  The Essential I is not just in one persona but in all.  The persona is not spirit, even though it is ‘seen’ as a spirit.  It is soul.  Spirit is the Essential I.


It is far more obvious to those who have passed on to see the different levels of the heavens working in conjunction with each other and how very wise souls give of themselves to younger souls.  And I use that word with considerable thought, as soul is different from spirit.  The soul is that persona that is of mind, is that person who will continue on in the heavens, while the spirit is the Essential I, the Over Soul, that is the part that animates, that enlivens, that gives life to the persona, that is part of the Divine spark given to each of us.


I will stop there before I get into even deeper waters.